JB and Soul Time: The “Other” JB (Joel Bennett) Discusses His New "Quest for Presence" Book

TLC Lifestyle Correspondent Geoff Wolfe interviews the author on clock time, deep time and soul time.

Dr. Bennett helps us better appreciate the various dimensions of time, including the Spicoli Space-Time Continuum: “If I’m here and you’re here, doesn’t that make it our time?”

The following is an interview based on my conversation with Dr. Joel Bennett about his new book Quest for Presence: Book Two on the Soulful Capacities. His publicity team reached out to us three weeks ago to ask if we’d like to schedule an interview. The book sounded well outside of our wheelhouse, and I was upfront in telling them that we’ve taken so many liberties blurring fact and fiction, that our readers are not likely to believe that Dr. Bennett is a real person, or that Quest for Presence is a real book (it sounds like the title of an unreleased Yes album – in other words, something we’d definitely make up).  

I didn’t think I’d hear back, but they persisted, claiming that Dr. Bennett was a fan of our “work” and was willing to take a chance, particularly since he thought it would be an ideal platform to underscore the value he places on humor in his latest book. We were flattered, of course, but still a bit skeptical that the topic would be a fit: I didn’t see much humor in chapter titles like “Calling the Diving Origin of Soulful Capacities,” or in the lofty-sounding topics the book addresses: Presence, Flow, and Synchronicity. Not seeing the humor didn’t mean we couldn’t have some fun, but I wasn’t convinced that these themes would resonate with our readers, who have become accustomed to our off-center treatment of far more earth-bound topics. Dr. Bennett’s admirably unrelenting team insisted that the book is fundamentally about something far more relatable: time. More specifically, clock time, deep time, and soul time. Ah, ok, that we could work with – I am habitually late for everything and have had time management issues dating back to pre-school. If we could find some humor in a book on “soulful capacities,” and learn a thing or two that improved time management, sure, let’s do it.

A final note before we dive into the interview (edited for levity): Because his team over-scheduled his media appearances in an attempt to catapult his book to the top of the Amazon best-seller list (the two-week pre and post-launch periods are critical), we conducted the interview in the only available window he had: 6:30 AM EST this past Tuesday – suboptimal as it’s two hours before my first cup of coffee and I’m not a morning person. But it turned out to be a highly informative 27-minute conversation. Dr. Bennett had a hard stop at 6:57, as he needed three minutes of “soul time” before his 7 o’clock interview with Mack Methuselah (surely not his real name), the host of “The Nagging Persistence of Time” podcast. He promised to return at some point in the future, and pack 50 minutes of deep time in 30 minutes of clock time – I’m still not sure how that works, but I plan to take him up on his offer.   

The author.

Geoff Wolfe: Dr. Bennett, welcome.

Joel Bennett: Call me Joel, please.

GW:  Clock time, deep time, soul time. For me, this is sleep time, so if at any point during this Zoom call it appears my screen froze, keep talking, it’s probably my brain that’s buffering.  

JB: Thanks for the heads up.  

GW:  Quest for Presence Book Two – just how many books are there and do I have to read all of them to get the full benefit?  

JB: It’s a five-part series.

GW: Scribble, scribble, scribble, eh Mr. Gibbon?

JB: Pardon?

GW: What? Oh, sorry, continue, please.

JB: They can be read as standalones, or in any order. You can essentially “choose your own adventure.” The overarching idea is to help you become more present, make room for uplifts, for positive moments, especially humor, and for glimpses of the amazing wonders of life. Book Two, The Soulful Capacities, is about the psychological and spiritual benefits that come from throwing off the yoke of clock time.

GW: Your book scoffs at the notion of clock time.

JB: I wouldn’t say scoff.

GW: I didn’t say sneer, I said scoff, but suffice it to say you don’t hold clock time in high regard. Which begs the question: without clock time, how do we know to show up at the same time for this conversation, or when to take the Bundt cake out of the oven, or how much time is left to take the game-winning shot?  

JB:  Yes, but we also take our time too seriously. I’m not advocating that you throw away calendars and to-do lists and turn life into a series of chance encounters…

GW: That describes a lot of people I know – they’re either unemployed, retired, or dead (assuming the afterlife is not as overscheduled as this one).

JB: I believe my staff mentioned that I’m a TLC fan.  

GW: Yes, thank you.

JB: In preparing for this, I went back to your very first post, the one that establishes the theme of this project, and was struck by a particular passage: “Life is a series of losing propositions from the moment we’re rustled from the womb, beginning with the reluctant transition from breast milk to the bottle, the loss of teeth to the loss of innocence, the loss of a parent's unqualified love, shelter, and credit card, to the gradual loss of great, good, not completely terrible options. Even the loss of virginity is, technically, a loss — technically. As we stumble onward, the losses mount...the loss of focus, passion, hair, muscle tone, money, self-esteem, perspective, appetite, and eventually, all ambition…all lost or in a state of accelerating loss.” So, underneath it all, the Loser Chronicles is about time.

GW: Yes. “We are born into a losing struggle” is our unofficial motto – we considered “fucking up in real time” but it was registered in 1992 by the New York Knicks.     

JB: That passage is about losing in the context of “clock-time,” which posits time as a thing you can possess. The joke is we never had it in the first place. Mark Twain put a nice spin on this: “Never put off till tomorrow what may be done day after tomorrow just as well.” The word “time” means different things. The Buddhists say that everything in the universe is impermanent. Physicists express a similar view in the concept of entropy - the tendency for everything to get increasingly random, to dissipate, and disappear. The point is that we live our lives in time, but time exists apart and beyond us - it is indifferent to the way we live and perceive it. Time management is not so much about managing the clock, as it is about managing our perceptions that time is something we have.

GW: FYI, if I don’t respond it’s because I’m taking notes.  

JB: Book Two deals with some inherent paradoxes of time:  while clocks allow us to better manage our complex lives, clock time has made our lives increasingly complex. We now work 24/7, have more time pressures, time prisons, stress, burnout, exhaustion, and sleeplessness…all of which are often compounded by addictions and assorted “coping” mechanisms.” The time we need to recover is not clock time but rather the time of our own presence, our life now, and of the wonderful cosmos we are woven into.

GW:  Unless you’re a Trappist monk or living in a tent off the grid, how far can you go beyond clock time before life starts nipping at your ankles - when bills go unpaid and the dishes start piling up?     

JB: There’s another paradox of time: the more you move past clock time and the further into “deep time” you go, the more efficient in your life you become. Measuring time not by the ticking of a clock, but by the value you place on it, gives you motivation and the tools to prioritize what matters most, improving your sense of well-being …it can even lead to greater intimacy in your life, which so many of us yearn for.

GW: In other words, better sex?

JB: Yes. Definitely. Thank you, Geoff. Much better sex. I don’t want to mislead your readers, it’s not a guarantee, but preliminary results based on a statistically not insignificant sample size indicate a high correlation. I am confident that the book will pay near and long-term dividends, sex-wise.

GW: Deep time, I like it. Moving right along to soul time.  I have to confess, when I hear soul time, I immediately think of the other JB - James Brown. What is soul time to you? Please try keeping this brief if you can – our readers are not here for spiritual or moral uplift, I’d be happy if more than half are still with us.

JB: (Graciously heeding my request, Joel related the following at 1.5x speed, so it reads a lot longer than it sounded when we spoke). The soul exists outside time and also (a) connects the past to the future, (b) connects the current embodiment of the living being to all past and future representations or incarnations of that being, (c) is accessible through and animates consciousness. Consciousness is the actual manifestation or use of attention and awareness, whereas the soul gives room within which consciousness can roam. Consciousness refers to awareness of objects and forms that both abide and change in time, whereas soul can transcend space and time. Consciousness involves attention, is something we can sometimes focus or control; the soul underlies and animates consciousness. That is, the soul provides the energy and ability for consciousness to arise and to be focused or controlled. Presence is the coming together of consciousness and the soul. When alert and fully interacting with space and time, we can access information we were not previously aware of.

GW: (a) I’m sure that reads better in the original Sanskrit. (b) Anything else to add?

JB: How much more time do we have?

GW: That was a rhetorical question, Joel. If you could share one tip that will help our readers take their first step on this journey, what would that tip be?

JB: Read the Loser Chronicles.

GW: I did not see that coming, but thank you, Joel.  

JB: I’m sure you’ve heard the expression “Man plans, God laughs.” A sense of humor is essential - which I think I demonstrated just by showing up for this interview on a substack devoted to losers and losing.

GW: Indeed.

JB: The key is not to take things so seriously. In the second part of the book I talk about accepting the moment, which allows us to flow with whatever unfolds next; we become fully alive in between these unfoldings. A sense of humor lets you ease your grip on the wheel of time. I love the Loser Chronicles because it makes me laugh - not all the time, but what does? - and because it makes me laugh it helps me relax. So, yes, connect to something bigger than yourself, which expands your consciousness in a way that enhances you in the here and now – which is the through-line of all my books in the “Quest” series.”

GW: Thank you for your time, Joel. And by your time, I mean our time.

Joel: Of course. Thanks for having me. I hope to be invited back for Book Three.

GW:  We look forward to it. So, to remind our readers, JB has a brand new bag (sorry, had to) called Quest for Presence: the Soulful Capacities, a soon-to-be Amazon bestseller that will buy you more quality time, help you manage it better, and improve your sex life. All you have to do is click this link to order your copy today or tomorrow, or anytime within the critical next 7 days. (TLC doesn’t get a cut, but we expect to renegotiate before Joel releases Book Three.)